massive perennials, perfume, foodscaping: declaring some ‘tendencies,’ with jared barnes

EACH YEAR, the powers that be within the horticulture business declare what the tendencies are, what shade is in, and what design types we’re all meant to stick to—and what plant is scorching, or not. Dr. Jared Barnes and I encourage to vary, and have determined to do some pattern declarations of our personal, from massive, daring perennials (like Baptisia, silhouetted within the morning mild, above) to why you must be taught to propagate and share some crops. Extra in a second. However first, these messages.

Jared is an affiliate professor of horticulture at Stephen F. Austin State College in Texas, and the creator of the “Planted” weblog and e-newsletter, and the month-to-month “Plantastic Podcast.” He’s been gardening since about age 5, and I used to be glad to speak with him, to do some forecasting collectively.

Learn alongside as you take heed to the February 27, 2023 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant beneath. You may subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify or Stitcher (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).

naming our personal backyard tendencies, with jared barnes

Margaret Roach: Howdy, Jared. We have now so many mates in frequent, and crops in frequent [laughter].

Jared Barnes: Sure, undoubtedly. And I additionally wish to say thanks a lot for all that you simply put into the world to make the world extra plantastic.

Margaret: Effectively, ditto.

Jared: So, I respect it.

Margaret: I’ve been subscribing to your e-newsletter, which I get pleasure from very a lot, and studying increasingly more of your weblog, so it’s mutual. Somewhat background, you simply inform us shortly: You train horticulture. The place do you backyard? Do you’ve gotten a backyard, a house backyard?

Jared: Positive. I reside in East Texas. I’m a professor at Stephen F. Austin State College in Nacogdoches, Texas. We’re a pleasant faculty. We’ve bought about 12,000 college students. And of these, we’ve a whole lot of college students which are enthusiastic about crops. I additionally oversee our horticulture program, and our scholar botanic backyard, the Plantery, the place we appeal to and herald passionate, proficient college students, to assist us have a good time crops with the neighborhood. It’s undoubtedly enjoyable.

I reside about 20 minutes outdoors of city, and my spouse and I’ve a 2-1/2 acre homestead known as Ephemera Farm, the place we have a good time the small moments of life that make life price dwelling. We’ve bought lovely wildflowers that bloom within the spring, the stalwarts of summer season, after which after all fall curiosity that leads into winter curiosity as properly too. We’ve lived there about 5, six years now. It’s undoubtedly been enjoyable to start out from scratch, naked soil, and construct a backyard from that.

Margaret: That’s nice.

Jared: Thanks.

Margaret: I learn a latest publish you’d did in your weblog about the naming of the place, Ephemera Farm. Very Buddhist; I liked it [laughter]. Celebrating-

Jared: Thanks.

Margaret: …as a result of as they are saying, “Nothing lasts.”

Jared: That’s true. That’s true.

Margaret: Nothing lasts. And holding on too tight, pretending it can, isn’t going to get you wherever [laughter].

Within the intro, I promised we’d introduced Jared and Margaret’s 2023 backyard tendencies [laughter]. The heck with the business’s checklist. Not likely; there’s loads of good ones on the business checklist. It’s simply that I’ve different issues I wish to shout out to folks, and I do know you do too. However perhaps we should always begin by predicting that you may’t predict the climate anymore [laughter]. Final week, between Saturday and Saturday I used to be minus 14 and plus 54. And I feel you Texans have had some disturbing chilly snaps your self, sure?

Jared: We have now. Two years in the past at our home… In truth it’s been, it’s mainly now two 12 months anniversary as a result of it was Valentine’s Day weekend. We bought right down to destructive 6 levels Fahrenheit. And at our home in East Texas, we reside a bit outdoors of the city. Right here on the town it was solely destructive 3. However the factor to remove from that’s that we’re usually zone 8b, and we have been 6a for not less than eight hours. We have been beneath zero for not less than eight hours as a result of I checked earlier than I went to mattress at midnight, and it was already beneath zero.

After which again earlier than Christmas, we have been 9 levels Fahrenheit. I undoubtedly see that as we go ahead sooner or later, we’re going to have to start out occupied with crops which are extra resilient. For us right here in East Texas, we’ve bought a whole lot of broadleaf evergreens which have now had two tough winters out of three years. And final winter we had a really dry spell, so a whole lot of our spring ephemerals took a very long time to emerge. I assumed it was going to be endlessly till bloodroot emerged. Looking for crops which are extra resilient in landscapes is certainly one thing we’re going to should look extra into.

Margaret: A pattern I do know that we each wish to see come true, as a result of I’ve learn once more, your weblog and e-newsletter and so forth, is massive perennials. Inform me about a few of your massive perennials. What’s a giant perennial?

Jared: Effectively, a giant perennial is a plant that achieves some mass all through some level within the rising season. This may very well be early on, and for me, I do attempt to attempt to have a few of these in my backyard, like Baptisia alba [above]. A few of the baptisias, we’ve really baptisias right here in Texas that get 6, 7 ft tall simply.

In April, when the backyard is simply getting up and getting going, having that early mass is absolutely good. However the different factor, too, is that with these massive perennials, I feel particularly with extra curiosity in naturalistic design and doing this design plant communities, we’d like these main crops, these anchors within the panorama, to guarantee that we’ve curiosity, and issues that we are able to form of maintain all through the season, in order that manner folks have multiseason curiosity on a few of these species. In order that’s one of many causes I like Baptisia a lot is that, you get these early spring flowers, you then have this stemmy mass of plant tissue that lasts on into the autumn. For us in East Texas, baptisias have a tendency to start out going dormant really in early September. They begin to fade away then. However you then’re left with these lovely pods which are left behind for winter curiosity.

And the opposite factor, too, that I like about these is that I don’t assume lots of people respect this about Baptisia and the wild indigos, however they’ve this tumbleweed motion, the place after we get these stiff December winds that begin coming by way of, Baptisia will begin breaking off on the base, and form of tumble.

Margaret: Oh, how humorous [laughter].

Jared: I do know. It’s an excellent seed dispersal mechanism. So it’s a good way to unfold your seeds round, simply tumble alongside and simply each time you hit the bottom, knock a number of out.


Margaret: Cool. I began with massive perennials perhaps 35 years in the past, was what I used to be most interested in. With massive foliage like for us Astilboides [above], and its relative, Rodgersia. And I’ve a late bloomer, you have been simply speaking a few massive daring factor that occurs early, which is fantastic. However Lespedeza thunbergii, the bush clover, and that would simply get to be this huge, nearly appears like a shrub, but it surely’s herbaceous. It may be purple or white flowers, and the bugs actually adore it and so forth.

The native goat’s beard that we’ve, and I don’t know the way far south it goes, Aruncus dioicus, or nonetheless you say it. Boy, that will get to be additionally like a shrub. And we’ve a local spikenard, Aralia racemosa, that additionally it takes on shrub stature, and flowers and fruits and so forth, massive insect attractor, a local. It takes on shrub stature despite the fact that it’s herbaceous and dies to the bottom within the winter right here.

So yeah, these are some nice ones. After which there’s one from the Pacific Northwest and Northern California. I don’t know if you happen to’ve ever seen it, Darmera peltata.

Jared: I’ve heard of it.

Margaret: Oh my goodness. These umbrellas on these big stems, nearly like, properly over thigh, perhaps hip excessive, and these massive inexperienced umbrellas on high, and simply actually enjoyable. So yeah, a lot of good, massive… I like, that’s my factor, is massive perennials. Undoubtedly.

Jared: Superior. After which one other one which I like right here is Rudbeckia maxima. Big cone flower. And so for us in East Texas is definitely a four-season plant, as a result of for us, it by no means actually goes dormant within the wintertime, even when it will get knocked again fairly arduous. So you’ve gotten that lovely glaucous green-blue foliage all through a lot of the wintertime to get pleasure from. [Above, the bold foliage of R. maxima in a bed at Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center in Austin.]

Margaret: No, I don’t, Jared [laughter].

Jared: Effectively, not less than we do. At the least we do. So I grew up in Tennessee, and even for my mother and father, it could die again to the bottom yearly and reemerge within the spring. However for us, a whole lot of occasions after we do our January mow backs and cutbacks, we’ll already bought foliage up, and we’ll simply reduce it to the bottom and it pops again up. However I used to be amazed how thick it will get within the ditches right here. There’s ditches out by the place I reside, and actually it’s simply stable Rudbeckia maxima for most likely 100 ft. So sure.

Margaret: We have now the massive Joe-Pye weeds late within the season as properly. And we’ve a Vernonia, an ironweed, which even is named New York ironweed, Vernonia noveboracensis. And that will get to be whoa, like manner tall. Yeah. Enjoyable bloomer. So a lot of these prairie-ish crops, prairie crops which are statuesque, too.

So massive crops, we wish to say to folks, “Put them into your panorama as a result of they offer a distinct visible impression.” They break it up, don’t they?

Jared: Yeah, they do. They undoubtedly present some oomph in your panorama. So when you’ve got massive perennials, some issues to consider are, a whole lot of occasions folks wish to find them extra in direction of the again of beds, or the again of plantings, however that doesn’t imply that you may’t put one up entrance for impression. so it’s nearly like a random planting.

And the opposite factor too is that, a few of them do reply to early season cutback, the place you go in and simply reduce the foliage down, perhaps do this Chelsea Chop. After which that may assist to forestall some floppage in a while within the rising season.

Margaret: Yeah. So right here, the rationale it’s known as Chelsea Chop is as a result of it’s often completed within the UK across the time of the Chelsea Flower Present in Could.

Jared: Precisely.

Margaret: So it’s like when issues are partway up, you chop them again perhaps by a half or a 3rd. And it really works nice for issues like a whole lot of the aster family members and even Sedum, the massive tall sedums, and plenty of different issues. So, you get a bit later the bloom begins, however a bit bushier, and rather less tall of a peak. Yeah?

Jared: Sure. After which the opposite factor too that we cope with right here within the Deep South is that as a result of we do have such a protracted rising season and issues can get so dry, we have a tendency to start out having crops that present what they name “the nekkid knees” [laughter], the place it’s like, it’s form of knee peak and decrease, waist peak and decrease, you’ve gotten mainly open stem tissue, and it’s a whole lot of occasions crinkly, nearly useless foliage. And so generally a pleasant cutback in Could stunts that plant back-

Margaret: I see.

Jared: … and makes it fuller and bushier, in order that manner it might develop higher after which look extra cleaner, in a while within the rising season.

Margaret: So we might discuss massive crops for a very long time, however let’s simply transfer on. Once we emailed and communicated the opposite day, you have been predicting a number of different scorching tendencies of 2023 [laughter]. What else do you’ve gotten in your checklist?

Jared: Effectively, one of many issues that on the checklist was carnivorous crops. As a result of I don’t know if this has ever been on a tendencies checklist, however they’re scorching, as a result of one of many issues I like about working with college students is that you may at all times see what folks gravitate towards, and what they’re very enthusiastic about.

And so among the extra tropical pitcher crops like Nepenthes, however then after all we are able to’t overlook our natives as properly, too. And so, one of many issues we’re engaged on right here is attempting to get extra range of a few of our native species, like Sarracenia alata, which is one in all our native pitcher crops, Sarracenia rosea, getting seed of those, after which really instructing college students the right way to germinate them, after which develop them on. As a result of if you happen to’ve bought carnivorous crops, they promote hotcakes, because the plethora of individuals on Instagram can share and discuss.

Margaret: Sure, it’s undoubtedly a collector’s factor. It’s like this… And at the same time as a “houseplant,” at the same time as an offshoot of the houseplant craze, there are people who find themselves… like that nice nursery, California Carnivores, that’s been in enterprise endlessly, out on the West Coast. And so they promote them not only for planting out within the panorama. However they’re nice for making, when you’ve got a moist space of your backyard, like a boggy form of space, or actually fantastic for these forms of spots within the backyard as properly, or for creating that kind of a spot, a bit poolish form of boggy spot. [Above, Sarracenia ‘Dixie Lace’.]

Jared: And I’ve really seen folks too, simply dig out a gap of their panorama, paint a kiddie pool black, after which set that down into the soil, after which really fill that with a peat moss/sand combine after which simply plant the carnivorous crops straight into that. So that you simply bought to maintain it moist. However there’s a whole lot of actually artistic methods about how folks can combine these into their landscapes, particularly the native ones.

Margaret: In order that’s like a fake bathroom.

Jared: Yeah, precisely.

Margaret: [Laughter.] A trompe l’oeil bathroom made out of kiddie pool. That’s a good suggestion.

Jared: Yeah, yeah. It’s a fake bathroom. Yeah.

Margaret: Yeah. There’s such essential elements of sure native habitats, and but their territory on the earth has been abused and misplaced and so forth. Seeing them in nature is fairly wonderful.

Jared: Yeah, and that’s a part of the surprise of crops is I really feel like all gardeners must play a job in attempting to preserve, and rescue, and be a part of. And that doesn’t imply exit and dig crops up within the wild, however everytime you discover them accessible within the commerce, undoubtedly making a bit pocket space of our gardens, for a few of these extra excessive specialists, that want extra particular forms of situations to develop in.

Margaret: Yeah. So what else is in your checklist?

Jared: Effectively, one other one which I’ve on the checklist is, I feel that this may very well be the 12 months of canopy crops.

Margaret: Oh, actually [laughter]?

Jared: As a result of, I feel we have to train those that, it’s good to be occupied with conserving the bottom coated. And this is likely one of the rules of naturalistic design, but it surely’s additionally, I feel, one of many rules that must be in vegetable gardens. And Mom Nature hates naked soil. She does. And so, if we’re profiting from cowl crops to go in there and plant in our gardens the place we’ve bought open spots, then I feel that we’re extra aching to assist seize carbon, present habitat for pollinators and early beneficials, repair issues within the soil, perhaps repair nitrogen. There’s proof that among the mustard crops may have excessive ranges of sulfur, that may assist cope with pathogens within the soil.

Margaret: Sure, they’ll. Sure.

Jared: And the opposite factor too is that, I discovered about cowl crops from studying Eliot Coleman’s e-book, “The New Natural Grower.”

Margaret: Me, too.

Jared: So that is an thought I’ve have for a very long time. However I feel we’d additionally cowl the soil, too, in our gardens the place we’ve issues like bluebonnets. In Texas, we’ve bluebonnets that seed themselves round, and there’s different native wildflowers on the market which are these ruderals like Aquilegia, the columbines, and Gaillardia. Lots of people assume Gaillardia is a perennial, however actually it’s extra of this short-lived perennial, a bit bit longer-lived annual. And so having these crops which are form of self-sowing themselves in round our beds… cardinal flower, Lobelia. That’s one other nice one as properly, too, for moist spots.

So having these crops that if there’s disturbance or the soil is disturbed ultimately, that we are able to are available in and convey into the panorama or the backyard, to cowl that soil, you’re additionally serving to to forestall your weed points.

Margaret: Yeah. I’m a lot older than you’re, and I’m leaning extra now towards… I used to be at all times a canopy crop, inexperienced manure, kind of individual, and that’s how I did my vegetable beds yearly and so forth, and turned it in. And I’m leaning now towards extra no-dig, the place I’m topdressing with compost with out disturbing the soil within the fall, and placing the beds to sleep that manner and so forth. However they’re very established and the soil’s superb. And that fixed topdressing with the compost additionally works itself in nearly passively in a manner. Yeah. So, however that’s fascinating. So cowl crops, as a result of I’ve used a whole lot of them through the years [laughter].

Jared: Identical to, yeah, the no-till dig, excuse me. Such as you simply talked with Charles Dowding about.

Margaret: Sure, sure.

Jared: Sure. Undoubtedly on that. However there’s additionally winter cowl crops that simply winter kill. So cowpeas is a superb ones.

Margaret: They’re nice.

Jared: It’s a bit bit stemmy, however winter kill. After which such as you stated, you’ll be able to put compost on high, after which don’t dig once more.

Margaret: Proper, proper. Precisely. O.Okay., so cowl crops, carnivorous crops, massive perennials. I feel you want perfume. Like my pal, Ken Druse, I feel you’re a lover of perfume.

winter honeysuckle, Lonicera fragrantissima

Jared: I very a lot am. And I used to be not too long ago talking in Atlanta, and I forgot how a whole lot of these aromatic crops are on the Atlanta Botanic Backyard. They’ve Lonicera fragrantissima [above], and so they have Edgeworthia chrysantha there. And I’ve bought a few of these crops in my panorama, however they’re simply small crops. However. I did grad faculty at N.C. State, and visited ceaselessly the J.C. Raulston Arboretum. And that’s one of many issues that I liked within the wintertime is when every part is useless and dormant, or simply rising, you’ve gotten all these winter aromatic crops that come out within the panorama, like Prunus mume, the flowering apricot, and others.

I do know it has some tenderness up your manner, however Chimonanthus praecox, wintersweet, these flowers are simply so intense. However even in a while within the rising season, candy peas, I lastly discovered the right way to develop candy peas in East Texas.

Margaret: Wonderful.

Jared: You simply bought to start out them in November, after which they overwinter. So it really works fantastically. After which there are different crops which are aromatic as properly, too, in a while within the 12 months.

Margaret: I’ve that Lonicera fragrantissima. I’ve a really massive plant of it. And truly our mutual pal, Bob Hyland, when he had a nursery not removed from me, he gave me that plant. And mine is, oh gosh, it’s most likely 10 ft tall, and it’s outdoors my entrance gate-

Jared: Oh, glorious.

Margaret: … within the late winter. If you happen to park your automobile in my driveway, you’ll odor it [laughter]. Or if you happen to go to open or shut the gate, you’ll odor it.

So, within the identify of time, I wish to simply be sure that we’ve a bit time for some discuss foodscaping, as a result of I do know that’s one thing that… I actually don’t know that a lot about it precisely. How you can go about it, however I do know you steward this meals backyard there on the college known as Sprout [above], and different issues. So, that’s one in all your issues that you simply’d like extra of us to learn about in 2023 and past, sure?

Jared: Most undoubtedly, sure. As a result of I feel rising our personal meals, there’s something about elevating your personal meals that makes you’re feeling alive. It makes you’re feeling linked to the world round you, as a result of even when issues are going horrible… And that is one thing fascinating: I really discovered an article years in the past that confirmed that just about each downturn in society from depressions, to wars, you usually see a gardening improve after that.

And so, that’s one of many issues that we see is that there’s one thing about rising your personal meals. So such as you alluded to, we’ve the Sprout Backyard right here on the college. Once I got here, our enrollment numbers have been down, and my boss was saying, “I need you to mainly determine how we are able to attempt to improve enrollment.” And so I knew how essential rising meals was for college kids. And so, we overhauled a part of the world right here across the ag constructing, that finally grew to become the Plantery, our scholar botanic backyard. However we overhauled it, and turned it into an edible backyard, the place we train college students the right way to develop crops, small scale.

We usually do it extra… We train them small scale, as a result of you’ll be able to scale that as much as any measurement. We train it on a small 6,000-square-foot backyard. However they might scale that as much as do what Conor Crickmore does at Neversink Farm. Or they might go take that information and apply it to rooftop backyard, like Brooklyn Grange.

So I feel we’ve bought to determine the right way to develop crops in small areas, not utilizing plastic, and plasticulture, if you wish to go the route of utilizing the panorama material to maintain issues down. Now, ours is a bit bit extra of a manufacturing backyard, however what you’re speaking about foodscaping is after all integrating crops into the panorama that then have some edible part to them.

And I’ll inform you, too, every time I am going out and provides talks, it is a frequent query folks have is, “How can I combine extra edibles?” And so, I feel we are able to come at it a pair other ways. One is to have a look at a few of these crops which are edible, which have decorative traits. One among my favourite ornamentals to make use of within the panorama are blueberries.

Margaret: Me, too. That’s so humorous. Me, too.

Jared: Yeah. And I like them as a result of they’ve the gorgeous flowers within the spring. They’re small, however they’re nonetheless lovely and will be loved. They’re native. After which after all they produce the gorgeous blueberries afterwards that you may then choose, or the birds can attempt to choose them first. After which within the fall, right here not less than, in East Texas, and I’ve seen up too within the mountains of North Carolina, oh my goodness, blueberries flip this simply crimson pink.

Margaret: Right here, too. The pink shade is unequalled by some other plant, I feel. It’s unbelievable. Unbelievable. [Above, fall foliage on lowbush blueberry.]

Jared: And we even have pink stems on them that final all through the wintertime, too. So discovering woodies that we are able to combine which have… So once more, going again to a few of these different episodes that you simply’ve completed, on unusual fruits with Lee Reich; I imagine you probably did with that one. And so in search of these woodies.

However then for the edibles, we are able to additionally consider issues… One of many methods I discovered from my pal, Brie Arthur, who wrote the e-book on foodscaping is, you’ll be able to take shrubs, and use them as trellises for tomatoes, or pea vines, issues like that, so that you simply’re mainly integrating, discovering these small patches.

So once more, it goes again to this idea: Mom Nature hates naked soil, and the way can we determine methods? One of many issues, too, that we did every time I began right here on the college is, we did a Swiss chard trial. And I feel folks thought I used to be a bit bit loopy, however the purpose we did it’s as a result of Swiss chard is gorgeous. It’s decorative, it’s edible-

Margaret: It’s.

Jared: … it survives the winter [in Texas], and so why not analysis which of them develop greatest? And now I feel that that’s undoubtedly coming full circle as a result of when millennials and younger folks go into backyard facilities, they’re asking the query, “Present me crops that perform a little little bit of every part.” So after we’re foodscaping, that’s our aim is to seek out the little pockets and holes, and likewise begin small. It will possibly appear a bit bit overwhelming to instantly attempt to overhaul your entire panorama to make it edible, however begin small, make some small impacts on issues, and tuck in additional rosemary and chives.

And the opposite factor, too, is that a whole lot of occasions we’ve decorative beds round our home already, and we’re round that space shut in proximity to the home. In order that manner, it’s not a giant concern if it’s good to run out for some thyme, or some herbs-

'Rhubarb' chard seedlings int he gardenMargaret: [Laughter.] Proper, precisely. [Above, ‘Rhubarb’ chard.]

Jared: … actual fast, and simply seize them.

Margaret: It’s a bit harvesting.

Jared: Precisely. Proper as you’re cooking.

Margaret: Yeah. I promised in the beginning, one of many issues we each wish to put forth is that individuals take into consideration propagating and sharing crops, is there some recommendation you wish to give us shortly about that ethic?

Jared: I might like to. I might like to. So I argue that we’re unimaginable propagators of crops, however one of many issues that we have to do higher about is determine the right way to propagate extra gardeners. And so, a few the rules that I train folks is: 1, you must sow surprise. So when a seed goes to germinate, it takes in water, it imbibes water. And identical to us, just about each gardener on the market has had some expertise of surprise of their life the place they’ve skilled one thing that linked them to the pure world.

And so we’ve bought to be ensuring that we share tales about crops, as a result of cultural info is essential, but it surely’s really the tales that join folks to crops.

We’ve additionally bought to guarantee that we’re serving to newbie gardeners take root. And so we’ve bought to guarantee that we’re connecting the worth of crops and that we’re not main them astray. That’s one of many issues that I deal with, too, is ensuring that the data we’re sharing is truthful and correct, since you see manner too many info that’s on the market.

For instance, one of many issues I train my college students is that some folks say like, “Effectively, there’s male bell peppers, and there’s feminine bell peppers.” No. As a result of, bell peppers comprise seed, and that seed comes from feminine placental tissue. So we’ve bought to ensure we’re correct.

And the very last thing I wish to say too is simply that we’ve bought to determine methods to graft curiosity collectively. So which means connecting crops with artwork, connecting crops with music, with meals, with magnificence, with well being.

And the opposite factor, too, that we’ve bought to do is that we’ve bought to have enjoyable with crops. I feel that too usually, gardeners make crops boring, and so they do it as a result of they plant meatballs, or they simply form of throw some stuff in to fill a panorama. However we’ve bought to keep in mind that we share this planet with unimaginable organisms that remodel the world, and we’ve bought to have a good time them extra.

Margaret: Effectively, Jared Barnes, a great place to complete, and I hope we’re going to speak once more quickly. I do know I be taught so much from every of your newsletters and so forth, and your weblog, and the podcast. And thanks for making time right now. Thanks for sharing all these concepts. I’ll discuss to you once more quickly.

Jared: Sure, Margaret, it was a real pleasure. I actually respect you inviting me on. And till subsequent time, continue to grow.

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MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 backyard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its thirteenth 12 months in March 2022. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Hear domestically within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Japanese, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the February 27, 2023 present utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You may subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify or Stitcher (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).

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